A day or so ago, I wrote about how I grew up a Christian, Conservative Libertarian, and how meeting key people in my life, as well as discovering Bernie Sanders, led me to Progressivism. Well… my more Conservative viewership DID NOT like hearing about someone changing teams, AND they came to let me know.
One discussion stood out from the rest, and involved myself, a fellow Progressive, and who we’ll call GOP Devin and GOP David.
These are all direct quotes, and can be found here, along with the original post that began this:
I was born to a lower, middle class, white, Christian, Republican family, in Massachusetts. My friends growing up were…
So… I had a chat with some conservatives:
*GOP Devin – “Ha ha he’s as crooked as Hilary !! And it’s coming out daily !!!”
*Me – “Or you’re believing conservative smear campaigns daily.”
*GOP Devin – “https://www.sanders.senate.gov/president-obama-signs-va-bill”
*GOP Devin – “https://www.sanders.senate.gov/president-obama-signs-va-bill”
*GOP Devin – “I post I twice . Let VA committee on reform . Did a great job .”
*GOP Devin – “https://www.google.ca/amp/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3732913/amp/Socialist-firebrand-Bernie-Sanders-spends-600-000-buying-holiday-home-picturesque-lake-property.html”
*GOP Devin – “Right after he endorsed HRC !!!”
*GOP Devin “https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/6jpfah/bernie_sanders_daughter_got_paid_500000_to_teach/”
*GOP Devin – “Yeah sorry but democrats do the smearing . Conservatives use facts !!!”
*Me – “So, he is an over 70 year old American, who has worked for us for decades.
He’s not allowed to retire?
You complain about him purchasing things with the fruits of his own hard labor, yet refuse to accept that he is still fighting for us every day in the Senate, regardless of his age. I see him introduce new legislation at least once every week, sponsor new Progressive movements regularly, and he is constantly making appearances and speeches in support of progressives and Progressive issues. But, you are more focused on him owning property, which is his American right. Donald Trump, the Right, and the DNC successfully splintered the Left into factions, that are easily defeated divided.
This is only further allowing that to continue.”
*GOP Devin – “Well in turn Bernie should Amit these fruits are bore by capitalism not socialism .”
*GOP Devin – “Free shit does exist . And the day he endorsed HRC , he lost all credibility . He should move to Venezuela and help them with their socialism!!!”
*Me – “That is your opinion, and you are entitled to it.
But I am also entitled to tell you that I believe you are quite incorrect. His choice to endorse showed a great deal of critical thinking abilities and self-sacrifice. He risked his entire legacy in an attempt to prevent America from being dealt one of their most destructive Presidents in modern history.
Regardless, this point is of minimal importance when it comes to the clear facts that it is the Progressivism that Bernie championed that is going to be the only realistic answer to addressing the needs of our country.
The numbers show that prominent progressive nations, such as Finland, Italy, Sweden, Norway, France, Portugal, Spain, Germany, the Netherlands, Brazil, and Ireland lead the USA in many ways.
The US is #43 in Life Expectancy. Germany is #32, Ireland #31, Finland #30, Netherlands #24, Spain #21, Norway #20, France #19, Sweden #15, Italy #14.
The US is #167 highest in Infant Mortality Rate. Portugal is #185, Ireland #198, Netherlands #201, Germany #208, Spain #211, Italy #212, France #213, Sweden #217, Norway #220.
The US is #18 highest in Obesity. Spain is #45, Ireland #57, Germany #59, Portugal #69, Finland #77, Norway #84, Italy #97, Brazil #102, Sweden #103, France #108.
The US is #48 in the use of Renewable Resources. Norway is #36, Brazil #32, Finland #24, Netherlands #22, Sweden #14, Ireland #12, Italy #10, Portugal #7, Spain #6, Germany #3.
The US is only the #19th lowest in Pollution. Portugal is #17, Germany #10, Ireland #9, Norway #6, Sweden #4, Finland #3.
The US is only the #85th lowest inflation. Finland is #75, Germany #53, France #47, Netherlands #37, Ireland #36, Italy #32, Spain #23, Portugal #20, Sweden #19.
The US is ranked last, #193 in Current Accounts. Brazil is #191, France #185, Finland is #133, Portugal #43, Spain #24, Ireland #23, Italy #17, Sweden #14, Norway #10, Netherlands #4, Germany #1.
The US is ranked 19th in Retirement Systems. France is #18, Finland #13, Germany #9, Sweden #6, Netherlands #5, Norway #2.
The US is #1 in Incarceration. France is #23, Spain #25, Germany #26, Italy #37, Portugal #78, Netherlands #80, Sweden #116, Norway #130, Ireland #131, Finland #138.
The US is #17 in Reading. France is #16, Norway #15, Netherlands #9, Sweden #8, Ireland #7, Finland #1.
The US is #27 in Math. Spain is #26, Norway #23, Ireland #19, Germany #18, Sweden #17, France #16, Netherlands #5, Finland #3.
The US is #24 in Science. Germany is #18, Ireland #16, France #14, Netherlands #8, Finland #2.
And finally, the “Greatest Country in the World” is still only #10 in Overall Quality of Life. Netherlands is #9, Norway #8, Sweden #5, Finland #4, Germany #3.
Obviously this proves that not only are arguments like “free means no competition and no progress” wrong, but that issues such as the economy, healthcare, education, retirement, and many other social issues are thriving in these nations, and that Progressivism works.”
*GOP Devin – “Yes for sure that’s debating . Like adults .”
*Me – “Apparently facts are immature now?”
*GOP Devin – “Well I can handle others opinions . But when the name calling starts I go for the throat !”
*Me – “So you believe that the phrase, “quite incorrect” is a personal attack in the form of name-calling?”
*GOP Devin – “No but nice try on the spin . My liberal friend !!”
*Me – “I suggest you reread my post in its entirety.
If you still feel that way, that’s your decision. But, I have made my point quite clear.
Bernie bashing is a tactic of the Right that the Left has fed right into. We have divided ourselves over something that is nothing more than high school drama.
While distracted by something, that accomplishes absolutely nothing, we are losing precious time to recruit, groom, and present real Progressives who will fight for real Progressive values in time for the coming elections.
Remaining distracted only furthers the advantage the Right currently holds.
For those reading this, you have the opportunity to intake both of our opposing opinions and develop your own, informed opinions on the subject.”
*GOP Devin – “No Bernie bashing is now in the real .”
*GOP Devin – “He is a swamp monster out for himself !!!”
*Me – “Do you own a home or currently have one on mortgage? Serious question.”
*GOP Devin – “Yup condo”
*GOP Devin – “And car and a truck . Worked Dairy farming growing up . Member of international brotherhood of boilermakers. Member of united association of pipe fitters . Any other serious questions.”
*Me – “Did you procure it for yourself?
Or did you get it to shelter your daughter, and rest of your family, and to attempt to give them a better life than you had?”
*GOP Devin – “I had a awesome life . I Have a conservative father and mother !!! And my family is well looked after thanks .”
*Me – “Clearly you get my point, because you are avoiding the question.
Bernie grew up in a rent-controlled apartment where money, or the lack of it, was always a subject of argument between his parents.
He grew up, worked, became elected, saved, and how has the opportunity to give his family something that he never had, thanks to his Progressive values and Progressive supporters allowing him to represent us in our government for many faithful decades.
My point is clear. I disagree with any Bernie Bashing.
Disagree with his policies, his legislation, or his campaigns? Go right ahead, I’ll debate you all day.
Want to perpetuate nonsense arguments that add no value to the debates within our political discourse? I, and this country’s future, don’t have time for it.”
*GOP Devin – “I’m not hammering his past . I am hammering his present . I have said it before I will say it again if he was for the ” PEOPLE ” he would tear the DNC apart . But noooo . He won’t even discuss the DNC lawsuit …”
*GOP Devin – “Now please give me a serious answer to my question . Why will he not tear apart the DNC .”
*Me – “How do you propose he tear apart the DNC as a registered Independent?
You do so by organizing progressives to run for every office of local, state, and federal government. Exactly as he is doing.”
*GOP Devin – “The DNC is on the verge of implosion now . 2018 will decimate the party anyway .”
*GOP Devin – “And the DNC will never let Bernie succeed . And he knows this .”
*GOP David – “I’ll not bash the man, but the policies. How much of my (our) money/labor does he think I/we owe? What percentage do we pay to create this utopian Progressive (Socialist, but clearly that’s a word you’re uncomfortable with) economy? And if I disagree with it, what level of physical violence are you personally OK with authorizing, in taking it from me/ “We, the People?””
*Me – “David”
*GOP Devin – “Violence begets violence . Politics has enough violence by the DNC . Violence hurt my family or those close to me , and one will wish it’s only violence!!”
*Me – “Devin, so you agree. There is no way for an Independent to address the issue of the current DNC. Your argument is invalid.”
*GOP Devin – “Can u show me his progress at the VA . He had a chance did squat ! So that’s all numbers on paper . His record in VA COMMITTEE speaks for itself dismal is a good word !”
*GOP Devin – “Ahh wrong . Open your mouth BERNIE to the corruption. Start third party . Unless arkancide scares you . Or the Clinton bribe machine for your endorsement.”
*GOP Devin – “It’s this simple . He endorsed the scum of the earth . There is no coming back for Bernie !”
*Me – “https://www.sanders.senate.gov/legislative-landmarks”
*Me – “http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/mar/24/be (Politifact stating that the link before it were true)”
*GOP Devin – “I said I’m not hammering his past . Bernie had done done great things in the past . Minus VA under Obama . Again it’s his present and ENDORSING HRC ….”
*GOP Devin – “Explain the Hilary endorsement. The very old hag that screwed him . Unless he was in in all the DNC fuckery !!”
*GOP Devin – “But you can’t explain that away can u !!”
*Me – “You said, and I quote, “Can u show me his progress at the VA . He had a chance did squat ! So that’s all numbers on paper . His record in VA COMMITTEE speaks for itself dismal is a good word !”
*GOP Devin – “U suck first thing that comes up on google .”
*GOP Devin – “http://www.thedailybeast.com/the-veterans-sc”
*GOP Devin – “There is another version of his wonderful job at VA”
*Me – “Politico vs TheDailyBeast…. I wonder which is a more credible read….”
*Me – “And for someone who gets upset over false claims of “name calling,” your cussing and demeanor only further hurt your argument.”
*Progressive – “I’m tired of people like GOP Devin who put up toxic stuff on upbeat posts.”
This is how most of my discussions with conservatives go. They tend to be one sided in the fact department, and one sides, on the other side, in the propaganda department.
Things I’ve learned from conversations like these:
1. Conservatives are still allergic to facts
2. Conservatives are still snowflakes
3. “When you’re proven wrong, deflect.”
What do you think about this debate? Do you agree or disagree with GOP Devin and David, or I?
Let me know at Facebook.com/vote4ajs
#Partisan #PoliticalDiscourse #Debate